Wendy
Vardaman, Madison, WI, has a Ph.D. in English
from University of Pennsylvania and a B.S. in
Engineering from Cornell University. Her poems,
reviews, and interviews have appeared in a variety
of anthologies and journals, including Riffing
on Strings, Letters to the World, Poet Lore, qarrtsiluni,
Nerve Cowboy, Free Verse, Wisconsin People &
Ideas, Women’s Review of Books, Rain Taxi
Review, Rattle and Portland Review. Her work has
received several Pushcart Prize nominations and
was runner up in 2004 for the Council for Wisconsin
Writers’ Lorine Niedecker Award. A former
university English teacher, she works for a children’s
theater company, The Young Shakespeare Players.
Beginning in 2009 she will co-edit the Wisconsin
poetry journal Free Verse. Her first collection
of poetry, Obstructed View (Fireweed Press), will
also appear in 2009. With her husband, she home
schools two of their three children.
1-Iranian poet Forough Farrokhzad believes
: Only the lack of love enforces
us to write poetry. If we were not deprived of
love, we could never feel any necessity to write.What
enforced you to be a poet?
Yes—one of my writing professors
in college used to say the same thing, and
as a young woman I believed him, probably because
it spoke to some romantic
notions I had of myself and of poetry. I think
that childhood probably comes
up short for most of us, and that was true for
me: I did feel deprived of
love, whether or not that was justified, and looked
to poetry and books as a
refuge. Did this feeling make me a poet, however?
I would say no: if the
insufficiency of love were all it took to make
people poets, than we would be a nation, a world
of poets. I would instead cite different factors
about my personality and my environment. First
my parents read to me from the day I was born,
stories and poems. My father especially liked
to read poetry out loud—Frost and Yeats
and Shakespeare were favorites of his; he has
always been a very
withdrawn person, and this was one of the only
ways we related to each other
when I was a child. Second, I loved words, loved
to read from very early on,
and spent incredible amounts of time as a child
doing that, to the detriment
of having social relations. The first poems I
wrote were in elementary
school. An assignment required me to write one,
and I just kept
writing—always poetry, never stories.
Although I continued to write as a teenager, I
went to college with the
intention of studying science. Even while earning
a degree in Civil
Engineering, however, I knew that the courses
I really loved were ones about
literature. I took a few creative writing classes
as an undergraduate, was
encouraged by my professors, and decided to go
to graduate school in
English. Unfortunately, graduate school was more
about passing one test
after another in order to get to the next level,
and between the reading
load and teaching to support myself, I somehow
stopped writing poetry, my
original motivation for going at all! After finishing
my doctorate, I worked
as a writing instructor at the University of Washington-Seattle
for a few
years, occasionally writing a poem or a short
story, and feeling that
something huge was missing from my life. In the
meantime, I married and had two small children
to take care of. My husband was an assistant professor,
very busy trying to get tenure at the University,
and we decided that it would be better for the
children if I quit the job I did not enjoy for
awhile to stay home with them. months, I was writing
poetry again seriously, and knew that I wanted
to be a
poet more than anything else, could not, in fact,
be anything but a poet,
although I had tried very hard for many years
to be other things. It’s been
thirteen years, and I have continued to write
steadily and never returned to
teaching, although I still periodically feel like
I should do something more
“useful” with my life and education
than write poems that no one reads—this
is a problem that all artists have to confront.
Still, I like to think that,
on balance, we collectively add value to the universe’s
spiritual economy;
most of us I hope, at least, do no harm.
Two more items that enforced my becoming a poet
have occurred to me as I
explained these details to you: one, that writing
and poetry is for me part
of a spiritual quest, a process of finding and
exploring meaning, not
meaninglessness, in the universe; and two, that
I really came into myself as
a poet and found the subject matter of my poetry
as a result of being a
mother. Although I have often felt inadequate
as a parent, certainly humbled
by parenthood, I have never been more needed:
in loving my children and
being loved—and sometimes rejected—by
them, I feel I have glimpsed, as I
never could before, something of the mind of God,
and that has both
motivated my writing, and been a subject of my
poetry. So, to return to your
original question, it is love, not its lack, that
compels me to write.
2-What is behind this outpouring
of polished vacuity? Why does a poet like
John Ashbery occupy such a central place in the
contemporary pantheon of
American poetry(and who created such an anointing
in the first place ?)
while better poets such as Louis Simpson and Philip
Booth receive nowhere near the attention they
merit? This is a question by professor Samuel
Hazo my favorite poet in his essay on poetry .I
like to know your answer please.
At some point in my writing life,
I decided to stop regarding poetry as a contest—probably
because I knew I wasn’t winning. Although
I have never felt particularly attracted by Ashbery’s
poetry, I reread some of his poems in order to
think about your question. Not only did I find
them funnier than I used to, I realized that I
had perhaps
unknowingly come under his influence in ways that
surprised me, probably through reading and working
with other poets who have been influenced by him.
His poetry, particularly the early to middle,
appears to have had an enormous impact on contemporary
American poets who write out of the same aesthetic,
employing a similar sense of humor, a flat and
often cynical tone, ironic references to American
popular culture, surreal visual imagery, postmodern
“playfulness” with language and syntax.
If, however, Ashbery’s poems can be very
satisfying sites for the critical and intellectual
play that literary scholars and many poets enjoy,
they are perhaps less
satisfying to a reader uninterested in American
postmodernism, who may feel
that these poems are all about surface, that they
keep their readers at a distance, that they call
too much attention to the writer’s intellectual
prowess, and that they reduce the relation of
writer and reader to its cerebral dimension, at
the expense, it sometimes seems, of emotion or
spirit. Why this aesthetic is the dominant (though
not only) one in American poetry, is a difficult
question, perhaps connected at its foundation
with issues about belief and meaning. And why
Ashbery— a well-connected New Yorker with
contacts in the art world—as opposed to
the other poets you speak of? All three are male,
masters of their craft, prolific writers, and
of a similar age—all had
careers as college professors as well as poets.
Maybe it is more revealing
to think about why a highly-gifted, female poet
who remains in a small town,
is not part of the university system, and does
not write within the dominant
aesthetic would not have an immediate influence
on other poets. Put in
those terms, does it seem likely that she would?
Perhaps with the right
advocates and sustained efforts, she might eventually
become influential, as
did Emily Dickinson or, more recently, Lorrine
Niedecker, but perhaps not.
In the end, I think, influence, as is demonstrated
by the general
importance of celebrities in our society, is not
necessarily a measure of
substance or quality and shouldn’t be taken
as such, although it also does
not, in and of itself, indicate a lack of substance.
The fact is that there are an enormous number
of people writing in this
country, and we are our own readers as well, meaning
that the vast majority
of poets, even relatively well-known ones, have,
ironically, very small
audiences, and very little influence on that audience.
And given the small
number of people who write about poetry in reviews
and articles, very few
poets will ever get a fraction of the attention
they deserve, when you
consider the amount of work we devote to our poems.
Maybe you know a short poem of Simpson’s,
“American Poetry,” which addresses
your question a lot more eloquently and economically
than I just did:
“Whatever it is, it must have/A stomach
that can digest/Rubber, coal,
uranium, moons, poems.//Like the shark, it contains
a shoe./It must swim for
miles through the desert/Uttering cries that are
almost human.”
3- Julia de Burgos in a poem for herself says:
The people are saying that I am your enemy,
That in poetry I give you to the world,
They lie ,Julia de Burgos, They lie ,Julia de
Burgos.
The voice that rises in my verses is not your
voice:
it is my voice; for you are clothing and I am
the essence; between us lies the deepest abyss.
What about you dear Wendy Vardaman?
First I should thank you for introducing
me to a wonderful poet whose work I did not know—my
first thought about the lines you quote here was
that they reminded me of Jorge Luis Borges’
famous parable or prose poem “Borges and
I,” which makes a kind of postmodernist
philosophical game of the gap between the poet
and the historical person called “Borges,”
the author and the poem’s persona, the perceiving
subject and the object, even when that object
is himself, as de Burgos seems also to do. When
I looked at the whole of this poem, however, it
seemed to me that something more urgent was at
stake for the poet, that is, the female voice
and the circumstances and constraints that, traditionally,
women have had to overcome in order to write:
“You belong to your husband, your master;
not me; /I belong to nobody, or all,” the
poem says. And although I know that men also face
social pressure, I’m not sure that it is
to the same degree that women do, or that they
feel it as deeply. Certainly most men move through
ordinary life more freely than most women even
now, and de Burgos writes evocatively in this
poem of the sanctions that women often encounter,
as well as the frustration arising from them:
You in yourself have no say;
everyone governs you;
your husband, your parents, your family,
the priest, the dressmaker, the theatre, the dance
hall,
the auto, the fine furnishings, the feast, champagne,
heaven and hell, and the social, “what will
they say”.
And yet, I can’t help but
notice that women themselves are implicated in
this list, that we are at times complicit in our
destruction, both through uncritically accepting
the demands of others, and also by burdening other
women with requirements that, for example, they
dress in certain ways, keep house or cook to particular
standards, have a specific kind of job or life,
a big house, well-mannered children who participate
in certain activities, and I wonder if that isn’t
perhaps what de Burgos means in the poem’s
final image, a terrible, but powerful scene in
which the narrator becomes part of a virtuous
mob who, in the end, will destroy this “Julia
de Burgos,” this woman created and controlled
by the forces noted above.
I too have felt these pressures
with respect, for example, to the choice I made
to stay home with my children, rather than hold
a university position, and professional women,
much more than men, disapprove. On the other hand,
although mothers must always balance their own
needs with those of their children, and that is
never easy, I have found certain roles helpful
to me in shaping my identity, like cups that hold
a liquid that would otherwise be lost. Motherhood
is like that, as is religion, which I came to
as an adult. Still, there is a constant back and
forth between me and my children, me and God,
though I often find that when I struggle to win,
or feel I have lost it’s because, somehow,
I have framed the terms of the engagement incorrectly.
And in that sense I have often fought myself,
though less and less as I get older, trying as
a favorite poet of mine, Gerard Manley Hopkins,
wrote in his sonnet, “My own heart let me
more have pity on,” to “let/Me live
to my sad self hereafter kind.”
4 :Adrienne Rich opens her notebooks
on poetry and politics with an "image befitting
the long, erotic, unending wrestling of poetry
and politics. " May I know your interpretation?
and If you have any poem regarding this interpretation
please let us read it.
I know poets who believe that
all poets have an obligation to take political
action and to protest through their work; I know
other poets equally committed to the opposite
position—the belief that politics and poetry
are antithetical, that good poetry is, by necessity,
apolitical. And, although this position has certainly
lost currency during the last decade, I know other
poets who believe that a connection exists between
politics and form—that, for example, traditional
forms like the sonnet are inherently conservative,
in a political sense. By nature I am suspicious
of monolithic pronouncements about art, especially
ones that limit its subject matter or the form
it may take, ultimately attempting to dictate
the poet’s aesthetics, which is a political
act.
The relation of poetry or art to politics is complex,
what I think Rich means when she speaks of “unending
wrestling”: this is an ancient discussion,
not just a contemporary one. Homer is, to my mind
a political poet. So is Dante. So is Shakespeare.
The texts of these authors are steeped in the
politics and contemporary events of their respective
cultures; each speaks to the political behaviors
and decisions of his audience. At a certain point
in 20th c American poetry, however, elite authors
and New Critical theorists began to deny the long
marriage of politics and poetry and to argue,
despite the fact that their own heroes—Homer,
Dante, Shakespeare—would not have agreed,
that “good” poetry and political poetry
could not cohabitate.
Feminists and multi - culturalists
have done much to teach American writers and readers
otherwise. We can speak of poetry as a political
site: whether or not an author has overt didactic
intentions, texts have multiple meanings, and
every author is a political/historical being,
some of whom prefer to speak directly, others
in code. We can also inquire about the poet’s
political being: some, like Rich, are activists,
others might make political statements in less
visible ways, through their choices about how
to live well, or virtuously. Ultimately, however,
though we may wish for virtuous poetry and virtuous
poets to exist seamlessly in the same historical
person, we know that that is not always the case.
T.S. Eliot and Ezra Pound, for example, are significant
20th c authors whose political views most contemporary
American poets resoundingly reject.
We must also, I think, be alert
to the ways that politicians incorporate poetry,
or rhetoric, into their speeches and texts. I
can think of many famous examples in American
history when rhetoric was used for positive ends:
our Declaration of Independence; Lincoln’s
Gettysburg Address; Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s
“First Inaugural Address”; Martin
Luther King’s “I Have a Dream”
speech. Unfortunately, poetic devices can also
be used to inspire fear, misrepresent others,
and manipulate voters, which is why Plato famously
wanted to exile poets from his ideal community.
I think, however, that the best defense against
unprincipled rhetoric is a literate and educated
citizenry skilled, especially, at reading poetry
and recognizing rhetorical devices.
All of us, I believe, have an obligation to reach
out to others; to work for peace; to increase
the amount of understanding and tolerance in the
world; to resist hatred and ignorance. Poetry,
whether or not we write overtly political poems,
can be a means to accomplish these ends, as can
other arts. Here is another quotation from Rich,
who said in her refusal of the 1997 National Medal
of Arts: "[Art] means nothing if it simply
decorates the dinner table of the power which
holds it hostage." Art, in my opinion, has
a mind of its own: it may decorate—and beauty
is, I think, central to its purpose—but
art effects audiences, even, perhaps, the most
jaded, in unpredictable ways.
Mother Contemplates Limited Good
We stand in line,
my daughter and I, because we have failed
to secure tickets for this installment
of the free Middle-East lecture series,
this one on women’s lives. We arrive
an hour early and lean,
like everyone else, against a white wall
reading. The woman next to me pages
through J’Accuse, the man
next to her, Hegel. My thirteen-year-old
reads about US oil dependency, while I skim
an article that connects Leonardo, flight, weight
and the poetic
line. We are all so educated,
holding our books and newspapers in front
of our faces, peering outward on occasion
in order to check our progress:
are we moving? We learn that Iraqi women’s
literacy has fallen below 25% and continues
to decline. Remember when we thought
the world was getting better? Every
Eastern European country
a wrinkle ironed away forever?
The Soviet Union fell
and when the Oslo Accords followed,
it looked like peace
and prosperity were as inevitable
as a new white sheet,
so perfect underneath its plastic.
April 2002 (Spell-bound before
the siege of Bethlehem)
Suffer the dandelion--
in dizzying supply at April’s end:
a child sees a field of enchantment, of thick
wands
and wide charms.
Our next door necromancer, father of two, declares
them
the enemy--subject to eradication.
One, one
too many, hundreds an abomination.
You never find a dandelion
alone--
where there’s one there’s a throng.
Sometimes whole lawns
give way to the repugnant weed,
its jagged leaves,
and later wispy hair--
the sort a forgetful old sorceress would wear.
They neither dance nor shine
like stars, though thousands line
the margin of the street; nor
make a magic mirror
to beguile me,
flashing on my inward eye,
my heart, its essence one with memory--
as if the body
vanishes and what is left
has no acquaintance with brevity or death;
nor do they soothe
the frantic brain longing for solitude.
Admire the long roots, efficient
germination,
and their transformation:
the spherical seed head that will conjure
itself from every quarter.
What other flower
invokes their
mastery? We can’t all
be tropical
lilies or Netherlanders
new this year
withered in
a week. Then
let us be weeds, sinking
into and emerging
from darkness
with wide eyes.
Fall Invasion
When smooth-shelled ladies swarm
our kitchen, my husband
finds them charming, cheerful, but the children
demand immediate dispersal, even
eradication, and refuse to sit
and eat, shoulder to shoulder, the table heaving
from their take-offs and landings, pinging
in aborted orbit about the light then
dropping like broken glass against a half-filled
plate.
That they vacuum as easily as
thin confetti
surprises. Even the cluster of fifty
huddled in a corner of the ceiling
disappears with a quiet whoosh: no paper pattern
but creatures who crack between bent
fingers and leave behind the barest stain.
Command Performance, After Die Fledermaus
for Ronald Watkins, soldier & singer
A call-up, not call back, the
roll requires quick change: father, husband to
empire-builder, aristocrat. It’s a part
for which our hero auditioned, but didn’t
imagine landing, at this age, despite the drills,
the endless rehearsals, despite the growing demand
for new choristers, solid baritones especially
scarce in this now long-running, revival-revenge
piece in which the supernumeraries waltz across
the stage, tossing down champagne, then lie to
their spouses about where they’ve gone and
when they’ll return, smiling all the while
as if this were a comedy, when they know that
the only way anyone’s getting off-stage
soon is on a stretcher. But they’re up there,
in the middle of this interminable, intermission-free,
international tour, pretending to have the time
of their lives, pretending not to sweat in the
scorching heat inside their heavy costumes, while
guards—disguised as maids and butlers armed
with elaborate time-pieces—prevent the actors
from leaving or breaking character. Family watch
from theater seats, like anyone else, waiting
for prearranged signals: a head tilt, a finger
lift, slight shift of weight between the feet,
any of which alterations of choreography means
something, although the actors, underneath blinding
lights, can’t receive the messages ingenuously
directed their way. Except for the backers, still
stalking a profit despite enormous losses, interest
in the production has evaporated. The audience
watches its watches, creates its own intermissions,
gets up to stretch and wander off, sometimes returning,
sometimes not. The singers wonder how long it
will take to wash the grit from their lungs when
the curtain comes down and they take their bows,
if anyone’s still there to applaud. They
want to sit in their dressing rooms, take off
the hot wigs and the make-up, ignore the merciless
thunder of incoming reviews, and cry—because
they’ve been acting longer then they’d
have thought possible—while stage hands,
quick and quiet as lightning, strike this tired,
this worn-out set.
Resistance
The bravely irrelevant
wake every morning and do not
get into cars, do
not go
to work. The bravely
irrelevant know:
resistance begins in the heart:
may start
with some small
act, as inconsequential
as paint, as letters,
as tolerating the dandelion, as
walking,
as waiting.
5- let me know please what do you know about Iran?
Have you any information on our culture? Our poetry,
our cinema, our people ?
I am afraid I know far less about
your country and culture than you know about mine.
A literary education in the U.S. tends to focus
on the English language tradition—American
and British, primarily—with a few European
and perhaps South American works thrown in. My
parents owned copies of the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam,
as well as One Thousand and One Nights, and I
enjoyed both of these as a child. I have also
read some poems by Rumi, a few by Forough Farrokhzad,
and seen a handful of films; after you asked me
this question, however, I checked to see what
is available in the public library here in Madison,
Wisconsin, and found 68 Iranian movies, some of
which I will be sure to watch in the future.
Working at universities and living
in university communities, I have had relatively
good access to information about other cultures,
through coursework and lectures. The Wisconsin
Academy of Sciences, Arts & Letters sponsored
a free and well-attended public lecture series
last year on Middle Eastern topics—economics,
culture, religion, women’s lives—designed
to inform people about significant regional issues.
My husband, a professor at University of Wisconsin,
currently mentors freshman students who live in
the same dormitory and are all reading about Iran,
including the Iranian system of government, Iranian
history, and Islamic culture, the goal of which
is to expand the students’ knowledge of
Iran beyond what they may see on television, which
I avoid entirely, or read in mainstream newspapers.
I have also found these articles informative.
My closest knowledge of Iranian
culture came from a friendship with an Iranian/Finnish
couple in Helsinki many years ago when my husband
and I lived there during his graduate studies.
Foreign students tend to meet other foreigners
and take the time to tell each other about their
countries, explaining especially those things
that they believe are misunderstood or misrepresented
in the media—this was during the Reagan
years and the Iran-Iraq War, so we had much to
talk about. Our friend, a dignified and considerate
host, invited us to his home many times, where
we enjoyed Iranian meals, as well as conversation
about religion, history and literature.
To some extent, internet interactions
can now provide us with unfiltered and direct
knowledge of each other, although I do not think
that any written exchange, no matter how special,
can replace the act of entering someone’s
home, as a means to learn about another person
and to break down differences between people.
Americans are often rightly accused of knowing
too little about others—their geography,
languages, history, literature. For me, being
a foreigner in a non-English speaking country
was such an eye-opening experience—I wish
every American could go live somewhere else for
a year.
6-"What have you ever done
with your life And done with the great gift of
consciousness? "This is a line by my favorite
poet: Delmore Schwartz
Consciousness, to the extent that
it implies observation, is essential to the job
of being a poet. Billy Collins often writes about
staring out windows—in a characteristically
comic and insightful piece, “Monday,”
he writes, “By now, it should go without
saying / that what the oven is to the baker /
and the berry-stained blouse to the drycleaner
/ so the window is to the poet.” Poets watch,
and get lost in their watching. Ordinary things
fascinate me. People fascinate me. My children
fascinate me. God fascinates me. Poets get caught
up in all the little details of life, as well
as in the meaningfulness of those details. In
the play Our Town, Thornton Wilder says that people
don’t pay enough attention to what is passing
them by, or maybe what they are passing through,
except, “Saints and poets, maybe; they do
some." That’s a romanticization of
poets, obviously, but something to strive toward.
Besides watching others, I have
also spent a lot of time watching myself—trying
to “know myself,” as well as what
it means to live a “good life,” in
a philosophical sense, and to be more aware of
the choices that I make. For example, my husband
and I have never owned a car, despite having three
children. Most Americans don’t think they
do have a choice about that, but we walk and bicycle,
we use the bus, and we often do not do things
that our neighbors take for granted, like shopping
at big stores on the edge of town. We prefer this
life—
I think it keeps us more connected to the natural
world, to each other, and to our own thoughts.
A person can meditate while walking—that’s
not so easy to do while driving in traffic. Consciousness
ought to lead us to resist cultural oppression,
as much as political tyranny, and the dependence
of Americans on cars is, I believe, oppressive.
Consciousness also ought to lead us to an awareness
of what we have and what others lack. Sometimes
poets, myself included, have a tendency to be
fascinated by themselves a little too much. I
have always had to fight the tendency to be selfish,
to look inward too much, to resist engaging with
people, as opposed to just watching them. Parenting
has helped me somewhat with this problem, but
not, I’m afraid, as much as I would like,
although it makes me aware, as nothing else ever
did, of the needs of another person, and of the
importance of gratitude for what I have while
I have it. I like that Delmore Schwartz - call
consciousness “a great gift.” It underscores
this need to be grateful to the giver.
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